The Month's Guano

May 1999
Kansas City Area Grotto
Volume 13, Issue 5

CCC Meeting April Minutes Climbing Class
KCAG Political Situation Membership Roster Carroll Dig #31

CCC MEETING #6 April 24, 1999
Ha Ha Tonka State Park

Attendees: Greg Buckley, Jeremy Eaton, Kay Hines, Rick Hines, Martha Hoegler, Andy Isbell, Ron Lather, Lorely Lather, Jeff Page

The following list of 18 items was given to attendees for discussions at the meeting. (Discussion, comments and actions items from the meeting are shown in parentheses)

1) Safety: Hardhat (Diggers must be in alcove before load is raised. Hines read an email from Bill Hays, attorney, on safety issues and potential liability. Part of Bill's comments follows. "The release really speaks to the overall project and how it is being undertaken. It is not protection against people who don't use ordinary care. It certainly wouldn't protect anyone for harm they might cause if, for example, they participated in the dig while intoxicated. By the same token, it will offer little protection against any other obvious carelessness on the dig site. In my opinion, working above someone who refuses to wear a hardhat is careless. Each individual involved in the dig should make a personal decision as to whether or not they want to expose themselves to potential liability for the death or serious injury of a fellow dig participant, just to accommodate someone else's reckless attitude.")

Pull system (Buckley is studying options)
New Board (Mike Hartley is building)
New Safety Committee chairman (group responsibility)
Minimum crew of two at top of hole before raising load (yes)
2) 501 c3 do we want to do this (yes - Hines will pursue)
3) New Officers -- secretary - safety (Not needed)
4) dues (not yet)
5) newsletter charge (not yet, if OK with Bill Pfantz who is currently donating postage)
6) bridge steel (Hines will pursue)
7) powered rope puller (Buckley is studying options)
8) gravel at dig for concrete. (Buckley will bring a load to dig)
9) Lyle and Christy Carroll (Land owners on west to be contacted about pond)
10) Horizontal or vertical (both)
11) Attendance at dig (All must sign)
12) Rumor control (call Hines if you have a problem)
13) need steel - big and small (Andy Isbell will try to obtain small steel at work. Hines will help and provide trailer)
14) 2' ring (Jerome Eaton will arrange for loading at Eddie's and transportation to dig. And additional 2-feet of 6-foot diameter steel will make it safer for topside workers, give us more room to backfill and get us well above the pond bottom.)
15) open or secret. (Open, the web page is for all to read)
16) Next CCC meeting on a Sunday (yes)
17) Next dig May 22 & 23 Buckley
18) June dig -- third weekend -- June 19 & 20
(Ron suggested that we should quit digging sooner on Sunday and allow more time for shoring to prevent late departures that have become too common. All agreed.)
(Andy asked to be added to mail list)

Thanks to Ron and Lorely for donating the $30 necessary to reserve the shelter house.

Before the meeting we enjoyed horseshoes and lunch. Following the meeting we explored Island Cave. The ranger gave us a map of the cave with the gate lock combination written on the back. After entering we locked the gate behind us as the ranger suggested. We left the paper work on a large rock 6 feet inside the gate. While we were exploring we heard kids around the gate. When we returned to the locked gate we found our map and combination gone. In its place was a long stick the kids had used to drag out the paperwork. We were relieved to learn that Jeff remembered the combination.

Report submitted by Rick Hines, 4/24/99
Subj: Kansas City Area Grotto
Date: 4/22/99 4:15:36 PM Central Daylight Time
From: ...
To: ...
CC: ...

KCAG Meeting Minutes April 14, 1999

  • Meeting called to order at 7:00 p.m.
  • Old Business
  • Last month's meeting was held on March 17th at the IBEX climbing wall in Blue Springs with 21 Attendees. Novice climbers were given detailed instruction by IBEX staff before climbing and belaying.
  • Barry Godsey and Eric "Drop" Johnson were nominated and accepted for membership at last month's meeting.
  • The Spring MVOR convention will be held May 14-16 in Cedar Grove Campground in Shannon County. This convention is hosted by the Meramec Valley Grotto and features cave trips in Shannon and nearby counties. Cedar Grove campground may be reached by taking I-70 to Columbia , south on Highway 63 to Houston, east on Highway B to Raymondville, Highway b east to campground.
  • Mike McKinney, Terry DeFraties, & Eric "Drop" Johnson will be attending NCRC cave rescue training April 23-25 in Kentucky as a prelude to KCAG possibly hosting similar training in Spring of 2000. OHG (Ozark Highland Grotto) has expressed interest in assisting with the training.
  • KCAG members are no longer patronizing Torres Pizza on Wornall as an after meeting gathering spot due to the downright unfriendliness of the owner and staff of that establishment. Westport pizza and Torres in Westport were chosen as acceptable alternates.
  • Bernhard Arnold and Jeff Page will attend the MSS meeting May 22 in Rolla
  • New Business
  • Speleofest '99 will be held may 28-30 at the Hart County Fairgrounds in Rowlets, Kentucky.
  • The Memorial Day weekend is also slated for Ennis Cabin restoration misc. projects ( fire pit, picnic tables, etc.) The new metal cabin itself should be completed by May 1. KCAG will be donation funds for Ennis restoration projects. The amount is yet to be determined.
  • The Black Hill Caver Classic will be held July 3-5 in South Dakota. Contact Bryon for Details.
  • Randy Bruegger will lead a novice trip April 23-25 for 14 UMKC Seniors Recreation Management Class. Contact Randy if interested.
  • Rick Hines reported on Carroll Cave Dig progress (45 Feet) see dig report in April Guano for details. Dig 31 will be held April 17-18. the sign-up sheet for upcoming digs was circulated. CCC ( Carroll Cave Conservancy) meeting will be held noon, April 24 at Ha Ha Tonka post office shelter house - Lunch provided.
  • The May Grotto meeting will be a picnic at Rick Hines' home May 8 at 2:00 p. m. 16525 Orchard Lane, Stilwell, KS. The Grotto will provide the meat. Bring your climbing gear if you are interested in rope practice.
  • Trip Reports
  • Regan Youngman led a novice trip April 11-12 camping at Meramec State Park. The group of 20 broke into 3 groups Saturday to visit Lone Hill Onyx, Jagged Canyon, and Little Scott. Those who remained on Sunday were shuttled down the river in Mike & Carolyn Hartley's boat to Green Cave.
  • Mike McKinney and others dropped a pit 45 minutes from Doug & Mickey Feakes's property the weekend of April 3. The pit features a 60ft rappel to a mound of debris and is perhaps another 60ft down after that.
  • Wayne Burnett, Randy Bruegger and others attended a Speleo Weekend several weeks ago. Speleo Weekends are by invitation only and not generally announced in order to control the size of the group.
  • The Alexander Cave video filmed February 13 by Rick Hines with the help of Grottos members and friends was viewed. Motorcycle batteries and video equipment were carried up the steep hill to Alexander cave in Arkansas and lowered down the chimney entrance n order to film this stunning cave.

    The group camped at Blanchard Springs park and had a lot of fun the following day rappelling down the 170 plus foot bluff at the campsite.

  • Meeting adjourned at 8:35p. m.

    Climbing Class
    By Richard Cindric

    Here you go. You asked for it so here it is. This is your chance to tone up those climbing skills and work on that gear. Please contact Bryon for the sign up sheets.


    We talked a little bit about vertical practice but never resolved anything. How about we plan on having that every Wednesday night at my house during the month of June, excluding the night of the meeting? We could announce it at the picnic at Rick's house. That would be 6/2, 6/16, 6/23 and 6/30. We can discuss during the 6/9 meeting whether anyone wants to do something on a weekend at Cliff Drive.

    We could do a variety of things such as:

    It wouldn't be formal by any means. Anyone with any interest or level of experience could attend. We'd start about 6:00pm and go until we run out of light or enthusiasm.

    KCAG Political Situation

    I have just discovered that the Kansas City Area Grotto was left out of the information sent to you. I cannot quite figure how this happened except that the file sent to me did not contain any NSS numbers for the individuals. I did ask for additional information from there early in March but apparently the request was lost and the additional information did not come. The omission was discovered when the president, Bryon Carmoney, renewed his membership and noted that his primary affiliation was not included and was told the office did not have that affiliation listed. I don't know quite what that means as the new directory is still not in print and KCAG was OK last year.

    But anyway, can it be inserted:
    Kansas City Area Grotto
    c/o Bryon Carmoney
    Contact: Randy Bruegger
    Contact2: Bryon Carmoney
    Meeting: 2d Wed 7:00 P.M. Mag Conference Center on the MRI site
    Pub: The Guano
    This is a postscript "within the hour." When I checked the files on the disk, they were indeed completed in early 1998 (a year earlier). It does look as though the new report was perhaps lost. This happened to Salt Lake Grotto on the day in February when I received 34 email messages and my computer apparently lost some that it couldn't print out immediately. Dale Green in Salt Lake found out when I followed up later. KCAG's fuller report may have come on that day but with KCAG I was already in the follow up stage.

    Bryon: Please notify Lois IMMEDIATELY if the listing above is not acceptable or needs change of a contact or the grotto address. If this is one bit of spilt milk that we cannot salvage, there will be other active grottos left out this year (usually for communications problems) and they do survive. The other benefits of being an NSS grotto continue, including receiving publications and monthly lists etc from the office.


    Subj: Fwd: Kansas City Area Grotto
    Date: 5/4/99 10:49:40 AM Central Daylight Time
    Subj: Re: Kansas City Area Grotto
    Date: 4/22/99 9:46:44 PM Central Daylight Time
    From: Bryon Carmoney
    To: ...
    CC: ...
    Kansas City Area Grotto
    > c/o Bryon Carmoney
    >Contact1: Bryon Carmoney
    Contact2: Randy Bruegger
    > Meeting: 2d Wed 7:00 P.M. Magg Conference Center on the MRI site
    > Pub: The Guano

    Please note the change I have made to the above. I must have put Randy in the wrong spot and the GUANO was misspelled sorry for the typo

    NSS 43042
    KCAG President

    I am posting this in the Guano to keep you abreast of the political situation of KCAG. As of right now we are not listed as a NSS Grotto. As you can see from the correspondence I have addressed this situation and I hope it will be rectified soon. If you need any further information please let me know.Bryon

    Membership roster

    The membership roster is not currently listed in the electronic version of The Guano.

    Carroll Dig 31

    Subj: Carroll Dig 31
    Date: 4/23/99 3:57:30 PM Central Daylight Time
    From: Rick Hines

    Dig Report
    Carroll Dig 31
    April 20 and 21, 1999

    Eight Feet Horizontal

    Diggers: Bernhard Arnold, Greg Buckley, Jeremy Eaton, Mike Hartley, Carolyn Hartley, Greg Fry, Rick Hines, Martha Hoegler, Ron Lather, Tim McClain, Ed Simmons, Ryan Thompson

    Depth: 41 feet to the lowest steel, 45 feet to the lowest point (no change from last month)

    The rain bucket read 3.5" since last month.

    We found clean white rock at the bottom. For the first time, more material had washed out than had washed in!

    Without a large jackhammer or explosive we were unable to move deeper.

    One interesting area we pasted on the way down is at about the 30-foot level at the top of the alcove. The only bedrock exposed in the dig turns horizontal at that level and forms the ceiling of the alcove. We dug a horizontal shaft about 6 feet tall by 2 to 3 feet wide, 8 feet beyond the 6-foot diameter vertical shaft. Two diggers can work in the horizontal shaft. The left side, bottom, and end of the shaft consisted of clay and small rocks. The ceiling consisted of a hard solid rock with small grains of quartz. The right wall consists of a soft sandy layer. The bedrock forming the ceiling is at least 15 feet thick. The soft sandy rock on the right is at lease 7 feet thick.

    Before departing Sunday the left side of the tunnel was shored with a 4 by 7-foot section of steel cross-braced to the bedrock on the right. Plywood shoring was reinstalled between the steel and the bottom of the dig (41 to 45 foot level).

    CCC Meeting #6: April 24 at Noon at Ha Ha Tonka, Post Office Shelter House Lunch and a cave trip will be provided.

    Call to sign up for a dig
    Dig 32: May 22 and 23. Greg Buckley will organize. Dig 33: June 19 and 20. Rick Hines.

    Report submitted by Rick Hines

    May 1999 Vol. 13 Issue 5
    The Month's Guano is published on the second Wednesday. Twelve issues annually.
    Submit articles to editor at least 10 days prior to publication date. Guano Subscription rate for nonmenbers:$6.00 anually.

    President: Byron Carmoney
    Vice President: Regan Youngman
    Treasurer: Regan Youngman
    Secretary: Kathy Sumner
    Editor:Byron Carmoney
    Asst. ED:Kate Johnson
                Wayne A. Burnett
    E-mail adress:

    Kansas City Area Grotto is affiliated witht he National SPeleological Society, The Misouri Speleological Survey, and a Founding Member of Misouri Caves & Karst Conservancy.

    Meetings helf every second Wednesday at 7p.m. (alternate site in May), Magg Hall, behind Spencer Laboratories, Volker Blvd. & Cherry, Kansas City, Misouri. Annual Dues: $10 for Full Members (3 caving trips with KCAG, nonmination and vote of membership required.)

    NCRC Callout number Emergency use only

    Central Region ***-***-****. This number may be used for cave rescue emergencies in the states of, Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, Misouri Ohio, and Wisconsin.