I recently received an email from a friend in the NSS. She's been around a while, and is very active in many caving activities. She sent the following message to me a short time ago. Good gracious, I hope this type of Scout Leader is in the minority out there.
Date sent: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:40:55 -0600 (CST) From: a fellow caver Subject: Caving and the scout leader from hell To: jgmurphy (at) bigfoot (dot) com Hi Tray, I need your help in dealing with the "scout leader from hell". Our grotto first had contact with her a year ago, when she phoned us up. Ms "X" of Sebastapol called both myself (I was vice chair and training officer) and the grotto chair, demanding that we take her explorer scouts caving. She even had a list of dates picked out for us! Both the chair and myself spent several hours talking to her. I phoned her long distance (she lives 3-1/2 hours from here). She phoned me at work. She phoned me at home. She e-mailed me at home. She e-mailed me at work. Several times. She also did this with our chair. She seened to think that it was our duty to take her caving. When we suggested a commercial cave, we were told to "get real". When we suggested Lava Beds National Monument, we were told that it wasn't "hard enough" for her scouts. She wanted her scouts to do ropework in caves. Finally, one of our grotto members took her caving. During the safety lecture, the scouts fooled around. When our grotto member chided them, she was reprimanded by one of the parents that "kids will be kids". When she took the kids into the cave, the adults left the cave! Poor "grotto member" was stuck with 10 kids, and Ms "X"! Ms "X" thinks that her kids are experienced rock climbers, yet none of the kids could tie a knot. She claims "caving experience", which is over 20 years old. Our grotto member claims that the trip was a horror. This year, it again continued. We again got phone calls, with Ms "X" telling us that they would be caving on Nov 15, and which of us was going to escort her kids? She worked her way down the grotto officer list. She seemed to think that she could get our grotto equipment. This was discussed thouroughly with our grotto, and no one would take her. She was told that people had reservations about safety. What happened? Ms "X" took her kids caving anyway, ill equipped! She went back to the cave that they were taken to last year, never contacting the land owner. Fortunately, the cave was gated 2 months ago, and they couldn't get in. Ms "X" was back on the phone, calling our grotto equipment officer, asking for more cave locations. When told that the grotto had safety reservations, she ignored the officer. She seemed to think that the group did fine last year. Tray, how do we stop this woman? She is the most agressive pushy female. She is clearly dangerous, and ignores all safety precautions. One of our grotto members thought that there was some Scout safety officer we could report her to. She is giving scouts a horrid name. She is clearly endangering her charges. Help! What do we do? On the flip side, I worked with the San Fernando Valley Council High Adventure explorer post last month. What a joy! The best kids in the world. Great leaders too, and I hope to see them again! Sincerely, a fellow caver NSS 22### |
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Well, I mulled on this overnight, then sent her this response.
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Date sent: Tue, 18 Nov 1998 22:45 -0500 (EST) From: jgmurphy (at) bigfoot (dot) com Subject: re: Caving and the scout leader from hell To: a fellow caver First, I'd write a letter to her, and copy it to their council office, attention the Scout Executive (include a cover letter with the council copy telling them exactly what you told me). Tell her in no uncertain terms that her behavior is unacceptable, and that you will not put up with it anymore, period. Don't call me anymore. Point out everything that went wrong, and why it was wrong. You could send a letter to the parents of her kids and tell them that she's going to get them hurt or arrested for trespassing if she keeps this up. Tell them all what a bad experience your grotto had with them last year - the fooling around, the lack of skills, the lack of common courtesy, and the complete lack of ettiquete on the part of the Scouts and the leader. If she calls again, call the Council office and demand that they put a stop to it. In reality, there's not much they can do with a loose cannon like this, but maybe they'll have someone who can talk to her. Don't get your hopes up. In the meantime, I'd get caller id and ignore her calls, or just hang up on her whenever or wherever she calls. Anyone she bad mouths you to will understand (and she will bad mouth you to anyone and everyone who will listen), she has to be that way with everyone. I'd also make sure not only you and your grotto is firm in their resolve to turn her away, but I'd get in contact with every grotto in a 200 mile radius and put out the word. She is a control freak, and RELENTLESS, won't take no for an answer, and is clearly putting excitement and thrills before safety. I'd hate to think what she does on rock climbing trips, and on other high adventure activites. You're right: she is an accident waiting to happen, and unfortunately, until one of her kids gets hurt (and she's in charge, not someone who can be blamed like you or a grotto member), no one will challenge her to a point that she will stop. Good luck. Tray |
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From: "Alex Sproul"
To: a fellow caver
Date sent: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:29:26 +0000
Subject: (Fwd) (Fwd) Caving and the scout leader from hell
Send reply to: imo (at) caves (dot) org
Copies to: jgmurphy (at) bigfoot (dot) com
Priority: normal
Wow! Leader from Hell indeed!
I think Tray has pretty well hit the nail on the
head as far as dealing with this woman; not much
I can add to that. But there are also a few things
you and your grotto can do to protect yourself from
such harrassment in the future.
Have an 'educational' program that is structured
and entrenched. Have a single point of contact who
speaks for the grotto on such matters, and ensure
that everyone else simply refers inquiries to
that person (i.e, no end-runs allowed).
Have copies of the NSS/BSA Policy available to provide
to inquirers, and follow these rules to the letter.
If the Scout group is not following the rules to the
letter, too, end of discussion. In particular, tour
permit in hand (they still do that, don't they, Tray?)
{Yes, they do, Tray}, permission slips and liability
waivers signed by parents, list of required equipment
for each person going in a cave, without which they
*don't go* -- period. No more than 10 novices on a trip,
including at least one adult over 25. Require that all
groups receive a briefing/lecture/orientation from
the grotto before the trip, where the rules of the
outing are laid down, conservation messages are drilled
in, etc. Parents should be encouraged to attend
this session. Instill the policy that the cave
guide is responsible only for the in-cave experience,
and his/her judgment must be
followed without question. Etc., etc....
If you are assured about how things work, and
they are not, you have the upper hand.
I, too, have had groups that just wouldn't take
no for an answer, forcing me to be outright rude,
but this gal wins the prize. Make sure the Council,
and perhaps even the parents, know of your difficulties
and concerns. Most of all, document, document, cover
your ass, and stand firm.
And let me (and Tray) know what happens. There's
probably something in this for all of us to learn.
Good luck!
Alex
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Alex Sproul, NSS 8086RL/FE
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